Fire Emblem: my obsessions occasionally have cause.

[myaru]

Tellius post. I cut the spoilers that'd make sense, but you know-- abstinence is the better part of valor. I'll let you take that how you will. :P

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One of the reasons I'm so fascinated (obsessed?) with the goddess and Lehran is the way both characters embody the themes of the story. Since Ike and the Greil Mercenaries are the mouthpiece, of course you get all of this "believe in yourself!" and "believe in your friends! / I fight for my friends!" nonsense from them, but what you don't get there - and what you do see in my favorites - is what happens when you don't believe in those things. I just think that, as subjects for fic, the characters who screw up the worst are the most interesting and flawed. Say all the nice things you want about Ike - he isn't terribly flawed or deep. I think Soren and Shinon have the corner on that topic among the mercenaries, and everyone else is kind of shallow.

I was thinking about the Ashera--Yune dichotomy because it's blatant about saying neither of them is sufficient on their own, besides the message that you need both order and change, and that it's wrong to deny your emotions. It's also pretty clearly making a parallel between 'uncontrolled,' 'emotion,' and 'children,' by giving Yune/chaos the form of a child. Not only that - they also give her the vessel (Micaiah) you might consider purest, or most innocent; it recalls something Lehran says in a flashback about the Apostle Misaha being killed by her own innocence.

Ashera and Yune are actually a way more subtle message about how unfortunate it is to give up on yourself. The prevailing message is one of balance, but underneath that is also a hint that you are never truly complete or adult until you accept yourself as a whole - not just certain components. Ashunera's fear of repeating her fit of rage led her to deny that she was capable of it at all, and pretend that she could lead her children without learning how to control it - instead, that just led to another disaster.

Also, Yune isn't just "emotion" or chaos - she's change and evolution. (And I would argue neither one was completely expunged of the other - they're not mutually exclusive parts of a whole - but that's a totally different entry.) The moment Ashera expelled her, the world stopped changing, and the goddesses became mired in their own extremes. Then we have Tellius polarizing and stagnating for almost eight hundred years while the two of them sleep, because neither their agents or the subjects (laguz, beorc) were willing to act free of the standards of these goddesses. I think this is strongly implied in the situation with the Branded; word has it Ashera called inter-racial unions an abomination, and for centuries after that such families are shunned and murdered on the word of the goddess. A potential evolution, or change in the natural order - the uniting of the two races - was slowed considerably because of intolerance. I'd argue the original goddess, and even what she is when she's split in two, would be in favor of this evolution, because she supported the jump from Zunanma to Laguz and Beorc.

Lehran is a reflection of his goddess this way. He says himself that he couldn't bear the way the world was changing, so he turned away from it; he's the other half of this coin, the lesson that you have to accept the world for what it is as well, instead of wishing for it to conform to your standards, be perfect, etc. He stopped changing. He was unable to accept his own mistakes, never mind the mistakes of others.

Since that's a big part of "growing up" and Tellius is basically about gaining the maturity to stand on your own feet (as an individual, as a culture), I found these parts of Lehran and Ashunera extremely interesting. The implication to me is that, until that veeeeery last scene, neither has really matured, and the world has moved past them. Here, they finally admit to their shortcomings and resolve to be stronger.

So, even though I feel like an idiot for it, I find that scene very... emotional? Though Ashunera is more forthcoming about it than Lehran. I suppose he said his due during the last battle.

So, on the topic of the Lehran--Ashunera scene:

Lehran says it has been 1200 years since he last saw Ashunera. This can mean four things:

1. The last time he saw her was three hundred years before the Flood;
2. That scene in which he says this takes place three hundred years after Ashera's defeat;
3. Middle ground: the scene takes place maybe a hundred years after Ashera's defeat, and they weren't in contact during the Flood
4. The scene takes place twelve hundred years after Ashera's defeat.

Three and four are pretty unlikely. Canon tells us Lehran and Dheginsea were the ones who suggested the goddess separate herself from her emotions, which led to the split into Yune and Ashera. At least, it's strongly implied in the flashbacks. I suppose they don't come out and say it.

In any of these four cases, though, Lehran is clearly "special" for living longer than bird laguz are supposed to, and he shows no apparent age. In one of my fics (not yet posted) I kind of joke that herons don't visibly age and die beautiful, but I doubt that's really the case. :P

I just can't let this go. Which is it? Even Yune doesn't know how long it'll be before she'll come back. And then, Lehran is talking about an oncoming conflict. WHEN WHERE WHY WHYYYYY. I just want to know. ;_;

Comments

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

it recalls something Lehran says in a flashback about the Apostle Misaha being killed by her own innocence.

Tellius does seem to have some pretty interesting things underlying it philosophically, especially when you place statements like that in the context of Fire Emblem overall and its ideological quirks (remember, kids-- the best candidate for a hard job is always an inexperienced teenager who doesn't really want it!).

I can see why FE10 interests you so much... I just have a hard time getting past the furries laguz.

[myaru.livejournal.com]

Tellius has some really interesting things going on if you can get over the facade. The inter-racial conflict and messages for equality etc., for example, are not at all subtle, and the games make the same mistake so many other people do when trying to address this issue: they relegate the "other" to some kind of animal or alien status. It's a nice metaphor, I guess, except that it's also insulting to those "others" and completely lacking in subtlety, as above. :P

I could do without the cat girls but not without the pretty winged herons, but I suppose games like Suikoden desensitized me to it. That series is horribly, horribly guilty of exploring their genocidal themes using races like that - beavers in five, cats in four, lizards in three, dogs in one and two. If you want to show how evil your empire is, guys, isn't it MORE evil for them to annihilate a bunch of peace-loving human characters that look like your PC?

*bangs head on the wall*

I don't know, I think the games have a lot of stuff to say, and things to offer, but seeing them at all may just be a product of my own love for them. Maybe I'm seeing things that aren't there, or potential that wasn't realized, but is still waiting between the lines. I know when people sit down to analyze Elibe or Archanea I feel completely lost, like I was blind to a bunch of things I would've seen if I'd just looked hard enough - but I didn't love them enough to do so.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

Maybe I'm seeing things that aren't there, or potential that wasn't realized, but is still waiting between the lines.

Pitfall of any fandom. With Harry Potter a lot of adult readers were enthralled by things that were there in the text but that weren't intentional, and in some cases when Rowling learned what the fans were seeing in her works she "fixed" it. Ow.

I dunno. One of the messages that I took away from FE11 was "idealism will only take you so far," but I saw the figures like Michalis and Camus-- men who'd rather go down with colors flying than compromise-- as the perverse idealists. And apparently an underlying message of FE12 is "idealism will only take you so far," but I've pegged the wrong characters into the wrong niches. Or something.

As far as the "otherness" goes, I do like the use of dragons in Fire Emblem, and fictional dragons in general tend to squick me as badly as do furries. Something about the way dragons are handled in games 1-8 doesn't hit the same mental "back button" that the laguz press on so heavily.

[myaru.livejournal.com]

I suppose Michalis's new fate fits that theme well. Maybe playing the game will give us a slightly different impression. I doubt it, though.

Dragons are mythical in 1-8 for the most part, aren't they? You get one dragon character per game - maybe two, but the focus is on that one little girl and what she represents, while Tellius throws that approach out the window. Laguz in general replace dragons, I suppose, and they're directly involved in everything. Maybe the lack of mouthpieces for the dragon point of view in the other games makes it more tolerable?

I always found it interesting that the dragon characters we're given are usually girls, and almost always innocents in some way or other. I suppose FE9/10 holds that theme after all, just... slightly differently.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

Dragons are mythical in 1-8 for the most part, aren't they? You get one dragon character per game - maybe two, but the focus is on that one little girl and what she represents

Well, Archanea actually offers a proper trinity of "gods":

The Father: Gotoh, the angry guy with the long beard who has turned his back on humanity for their sins
The Child: Tiki, the innocent who wants to give the world a big hug
The Trickster: Xane, whose loyalties and motivations aren't 100% clear.

And Bantu, but he's just a mook.

But usually it comes down to a duality thing-- Doma vs. Mila in Valencia, the power of Loputus vs the power of Narga in Judgral, a large-scale reiteration of Narga vs. Bad Dragons in Archanea, and so on. And yeah, usually whatever the side of good is packing is small, cute, and female.

I dunno. I like the original god/man conflict as established on Planet Kaga (Archanea/Valencia/Judgral), and I think by Magvel it was totally watered down to the point where the dragon subplot could have been utterly dispensed with. They hit on all the obligatory points of the dragon business re: Myrrh without keeping any of the mythical context. I guess it was kind of a good idea to go in a different direction with Tellius, but I can't say I like what IS came up with.

[myaru.livejournal.com]

If you're looking for duality, it's there in the goddesses, and between the races as well, although the latter isn't played up as much as it should be. Everything in Tellius is hooked up with that duality excepting two groups, and it'd be more significant if they actually spent time on it. The goddess herself is something of a trinity all on her own, but I think Lehran is a worthy addition to that for the role he plays, so it goes something like this:

Mother: Ashunera --> Ashera
Child: Lehran (but he turns this stereotype on its head)
Trickster: Yune, (for her past exploits; she's more focused during the game)

Though to be strictly fair - and to match your example 100% - Lehran and Yune would switch places. But what you end up with is:

Order: beorc
Chaos: laguz

Tellius doesn't quite dispense with god/man conflicts altogether since the ultimate goal is to take down a goddess, but it focuses much more on the clash of ideals. Cat girls or winged men might be silly from one point of view, but their approach to the classic confrontation between good and evil is a little less polarized, which is why I still prefer Tellius to the older games. There is no evil in Tellius; you have two very different philosophies, lots and lots of disastrous misunderstandings, characters who are obviously in the wrong but still good, characters who are bad but clearly still human, and not at all crazy, that sort of thing. The goddess you try to kill isn't wrong - she's insane. The man who drives the whole conflict isn't evil - he's misguided and completely disgusted with the atrocities the races commit against each other. A large portion of the game involves old friends, allies, and family fighting each other for causes that are all right, or at least honorable.

That's what initially attracted me to the games. Having played several of the old ones, I think they're written in the spirit of tradition, but still stepping outside of it... maybe in the wrong way, though.

Haha, look how passionate I get when I talk about Tellius. :P Uhhh.

Anyway, it does a ton of stuff I like, which is why I overlook its weaknesses, though to be fair I wasn't turned away by anything the way you were; nothing struck me as particularly out of place, as I entered the fandom with FE10.

And again, to be fair: there are massive weaknesses in the Tellius games. It makes me sad, as I always have to recommend them with caveats. They're not old-school FE.

[(Anonymous)]

Hm, not so much looking for duality as just observing that it's the motif in most FE games. Twin obsessions didn't start with FE8, after all.

here is no evil in Tellius; you have two very different philosophies, lots and lots of disastrous misunderstandings, characters who are obviously in the wrong but still good, characters who are bad but clearly still human, and not at all crazy, that sort of thing.

Yeah, that's a lot more compelling than We Iz Gud, and They Iz Bad, and We Both Fight Dirty But We Iz Gud Because Plot Sez We Iz Gud.

I mean, honestly? I love all the murkiness and complications of the Planet Kaga Universe, because all parties are to blame in some fashion for the never-ending cycle of wars, but I still don't know what to make of FE3/12 and the "ending" it places of several millennia of human-dragon conflicts. I do not see how placing a fucked-up teenager in control of a large chunk of the civilized world does anyone any good-- humans or dragons. But apparently Father!God (Gotoh) finds this a dandy solution, simply because Child!God (Tiki) can now come into her full powers without destroying the world, which is possibly what the whole point of the Marth games actually is-- saving Tiki. Because if you can't save Tiki, you automatically fail in FE3.

And we can only guess as to what Tiki does with the rest of her very long life and immense power.

Maybe if Tear Ring Saga really had come out as a Fire Emblem game it would have resolved some things about that universe, IDK.

They're not old-school FE.

Neither is Gaiden but I like its approach to good vs evil the best out of any of the games. I wish they'd put THAT into FE8 while they were stealing plot elements wholesale.

[myaru.livejournal.com]

But apparently Father!God (Gotoh) finds this a dandy solution, simply because Child!God (Tiki) can now come into her full powers without destroying the world, which is possibly what the whole point of the Marth games actually is-- saving Tiki.

I didn't think about it like that. I do recall what FE3 had to say - in a vague way - about dragons going insane, but that puts a new spin on Marth's fate as plaything of the gods. If Archanea still has any kind of government structure at all, though, and if he still has Caeda, it seems the empire might be fine if he just sits there and looks regal and heroic. And plays tag with Tiki.

Someone needs to write Marth into insanity. samuraiter had a nice start down that path.

I know nothing about the Tear Ring Saga. I should go read about that. It's one of those things I keep meaning to do and never get around to.